Oh, you're vegan? Like with PETA?
Well, I've got friends who work for them, sure. I got a really cute e-xmas card from one of them that depicts Santa's reindeer unshackled from his sleigh and flying off toward my MacBook's date and time bar. But I'm not down with that See-You_En_Tee Ingrid Newkirk who's in charge of the whole ops. So me? No, not "like with PETA".
This is Georgia,
and she's sweet as a gumdrop, but she said to me, "Damnit uncle Shawn, I aint no media profile killer, but if you let me near this bitch, I swear I'm takin some toes with me. She jumped on the whole Michael Vick pitbull case like record labels jumpin on Gang of Four rip offs from the Lower East Side-- makin a pretty buck for her cause with all of the public concern and attention. Well, come to find out-- she aint raising money for my poor brothers and sisters who were mistreated by that bastard Vick, but putting it toward other PETA spay and neuter programs, and veggie sausage-a-thons, and payin artists to make cute little e-cards with unshackled reindeer. Listen: She said my dogs need to be put "to sleep". These dogs live through Vick-etnam, and instead of a parade, or at least a meal and a nice family, she wants to give us a needle full of lead?! Some rescue."
Some people at PETA do some great things; turning the pitchfork on Colonel KFC, and making me aware of Huntindon animal lab testing. The problem is groups. Wherever "we" gathers, whether online or in the flesh, the law of averages drags down the IQ. Decisions become rash. Our leaders mislead.
For the record:
I'm not a vegan, I just don't eat animal products and my shoes are faux leather. It's just my thing. If you like it, you'll have to call it your own thing.
Do you support Generic-titled Clothing? Well, I'm wearing it, but I didn't sew it myself, so I can't very well put my name on it too. Come to think of it, I found a 6 year old's fingernail sewn into the threading, and it says "made in China". No-- I don't support this clothing company!
Do you support Obama? If he's elected, I may stay in the country.
My point is,
It's all about you and me. You and me are human. We isn't human, it's an average. You and me are better than average.
Well, I've got friends who work for them, sure. I got a really cute e-xmas card from one of them that depicts Santa's reindeer unshackled from his sleigh and flying off toward my MacBook's date and time bar. But I'm not down with that See-You_En_Tee Ingrid Newkirk who's in charge of the whole ops. So me? No, not "like with PETA".
This is Georgia,
and she's sweet as a gumdrop, but she said to me, "Damnit uncle Shawn, I aint no media profile killer, but if you let me near this bitch, I swear I'm takin some toes with me. She jumped on the whole Michael Vick pitbull case like record labels jumpin on Gang of Four rip offs from the Lower East Side-- makin a pretty buck for her cause with all of the public concern and attention. Well, come to find out-- she aint raising money for my poor brothers and sisters who were mistreated by that bastard Vick, but putting it toward other PETA spay and neuter programs, and veggie sausage-a-thons, and payin artists to make cute little e-cards with unshackled reindeer. Listen: She said my dogs need to be put "to sleep". These dogs live through Vick-etnam, and instead of a parade, or at least a meal and a nice family, she wants to give us a needle full of lead?! Some rescue."
Some people at PETA do some great things; turning the pitchfork on Colonel KFC, and making me aware of Huntindon animal lab testing. The problem is groups. Wherever "we" gathers, whether online or in the flesh, the law of averages drags down the IQ. Decisions become rash. Our leaders mislead.
For the record:
I'm not a vegan, I just don't eat animal products and my shoes are faux leather. It's just my thing. If you like it, you'll have to call it your own thing.
Do you support Generic-titled Clothing? Well, I'm wearing it, but I didn't sew it myself, so I can't very well put my name on it too. Come to think of it, I found a 6 year old's fingernail sewn into the threading, and it says "made in China". No-- I don't support this clothing company!
Do you support Obama? If he's elected, I may stay in the country.
My point is,
It's all about you and me. You and me are human. We isn't human, it's an average. You and me are better than average.
183 Comments :
you are such an amazing way of putting together words.
Thanks for your post, Shawn, I agree with everything you've said. I feel like many times crowds of people act in ways their members wouldn't, were they by themselves. Beliefs seem to be amplified in large groups and they sometimes become distorted or move away from the individual's beliefs. Real goals can become lost.
It's so important that people un-group themselves, so to speak, and pay no regard to the average. In the case of humans with varying beliefs and varying circumstances, the average really doesn't represent us.
-Marie
And I forgot to mention I thoroughly enjoyed the see-you-en-tee comment. Good call.
That was the best, well thought out rant I have read in a long time. I also get the same response when I tell people I eat vegan....so your one of those peta freaks. While they do some very good things, I do not agree of a lot of thier methods. I know when I ate meat thier in your face campaigns calling me a murderer and such did not make me not want to eat meat, it made dislike them. I stopped eating meat despite them, not because of them.
I think everyone is so obsessed with defining what everyone is....and they get offensive if you don't fit into thier mold of what that defenition is.
Everyone has to make thier own decisions about what is right for them, and if they change for someone else...they arent going to stick with it anyway.
Anyway, Happy Holidays
Krissy
I agree with most of what you say (except the Obama thing but I don't like going into that). Organized groups of anything are rather scary. But no matter what people need to categorize others as a way to understand or something like that. Of course if you ask them they would rather not be categorized either. Everyone loves to believe they are completely unique and in no way can be put in a group with others which to some extent may be true but not completely. I don't say I shouldn't be categorized. Instead I just say I don't know how to categorize myself because I am me and everyone sees them self as different from what other people see them as. Do you honestly think that anyone that is active with PETA would say "YES I AM WITH PETA AND I SUPPORT EVERY DAMN THING THEY DO"...I don't think so...maybe.
I make no sense. You sound a little better than me...scratch that...much better.
(might i add that the see_you_en_tee thing almost went over my head but i caught it at the last second)
Your pit friend must be one demented dog if she thinks Vick's dogs would be a fun playmate at the dog park or a nice bud to run into at the local pet parlor. Dogs are put to sleep for a reason. Some sad reasons, but reasons. A dog that has been trainded to sniff out grugs will sit when it smells drugs, a dog that has been trained to attack a dog or small creature when it sees one, will attack that animal. I certainly don't approve of giving up on animals, but the risk of putting a fighting dog, even a bait dog, are just to dangerous not only to humans (which I could care less about) but also to other dogs. And wouldn't the real crime be putting a well behaved and brought up dog with another trained and raised to kill its own kind in the same community? If that's your reason for hatin' on her, then your making a bigger fool of yourself then the former. What's wrong with supporting meat alternatives and awareness advertisement? Does it really hurt anyone?
damn, I hate being late to comment, cause it's all been said- but you're mighty legit, Mr. Harris.
2016 Harris election? yeah. I'd vote for you to be my president.
yesss. i loved the way you ended this really meaningful post.
"My point is,
It's all about you and me. You and me are human. We isn't human, it's an average. You and me are better than average."
yes.
Ah, such bloggin' truth.
Completely agree about we, you and me.
It's impossible to find a group of people that agree on everything, it's rare enough to find one person who doesn't turn into a Martha Steward tradesman of greediness and faux when given the chance.
Though I haven't ever kept up paying attention to PETA much, I've been going veg for a few months now. It's disappointing in the least that "we" are so closed minded to think anyone who's opted not to 'feast on the flesh of animals' has to also be a zombie-est PETA follower. In generality though, even worst when potential people with potential are turned nauseous because of it, no one wants to be an average.
...and loved the See_You_En_Tee comment.
♥ V
I agree with you Shawn and everyone who has posted. I became a non meat eater in 8th grade and now being a junior in college I still get PETA wisecracks 9 years later. The decision was based on my beliefs and I most certainly don't agree with everything PETA IS doing. I have a dog and could never justify eating one animal and loving another. Yet the only vegan or vegetarian stories that get published are the extremists who throw red paint or hand out tofu sandwiches naked at Barry Bonds's hearing. Just stay yourself and don't join groups except The Matches. That is one group I would never want you to leave.
You and me are the symbolic symmetry that makes people who eat enough meat each day to feed Cambodia reconsider making their order a large, and instead they keep it small. The ones who answers the waitress, "you know what? I don't think that I'll have that chicken in my ceasar, thank you though." People don't have to be vegan to support the well being of animals.
And I'm thankful that you pointed out a very staple point about PETA: It's not always the outcome of the idea that others should see, it's the means by which they get to the product.
And good for you, not eating meat because you just don't want to! If everybody did something because of an organization we'd end up having our sex lives marketed by Walgreens. "This porno was brought to you by Walgreens. If the condom fits, it's Walgreens."
-Doll
By the way, a late Merry Christmas Shawn.
You and I are us, though.. us, is a lot like we, if we look at other people.
I like your message because it makes people feel original, but I feel it's in human nature to congregate and stand together as well, not saying human nature is perfect (far from it), but that's just what we do. Come together then fall apart, come together then fall apart... It's sort of a natural cycle.
Nobody really wants to be completely different. Everyone wants to be we, in some way. We are all we, in some way.
Wow, that needed to be said... I agree with your opinions. As for the puppy love the glasses haha. Your post is summed up in the last two lines or so and again I feel for what you wrote.
it's nice to see that other people think of peta the same way i do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btuEUP8ujQ8
I saw this and thought of you, Shawn.
It's quite endearing.
There are too many animals being put to sleep in shelters to be dissing on spay and neuter shelters...around 2 million many... Just saying.
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by the way...
cute pup.
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Wow, Shawn. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were reading my mind or something. I was just having a conversation on much of this last night.
People assume that since I don't eat meat, and can't stand leather or fur, that I'm automatically involved with PETA. They also assume that I'm only doing it because people I look up do are doing it, but I'm not even going to get into that.
Anyway, I love that you have the balls to post stuff like this. I totally agree with this post, because I used to think PETA was a legit organization for helping animals, but the more you look at things, it's obvious that their agenda is skewed. It's such a shame, too. I don't believe in euthanizing any animal.
Wow, I got totally distracted, I've had this window open for over 4 hours and now I totally lost my train of thought. :|
everyone has their own thing.
if you don't eat meat, fine, whatever. it's not that big of a deal.
I don't see why people need to constantly declare that they don't eat meat.
I eat meat, and I'm not about to sit here are declare how good a cheeseburger is.
Mary Pettibone Poole:
To repeat what others have said, requires education, to challenge it,
requires brains.
I have to say that I'm glad you wrote this blog. There are too many people that I have met at your shows who attempt to become your clone. Some who probably posted on here agreeing with you.
People see what they want to see, choose to believe what they want to believe. There's nothing I hate more than generalizations. I know that people have definitely formed opinions on who I am based on things I have done. What you do is not who you are.
Once again late to comment and everything of merit has already been stated but anyway....
*applauds appreciatively*
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I think that it is alright to put a dog to sleep if there are valid reasons. For instance my grandparents' dog had cancer and she could barely walk, was constantly throwing up, and bascially was just falling apart. It was so sad to watch. The vet couldn't do anymore for her so they decided to put her down. I think that this was the right decision because who wants to see their pet suffer?
And if a dog can cause harm to another I think it should be put down too. My cousin's dog is this crazy ass huge monster, that will attck anything in sight. He's in quarentine pretty much every other week for attacking someone. I don't think they should let that dog out in public. He is a threat to society. Seriously, that dog came running after me and I was about to shit myself.
This is the reason why you have a blog.
Thank you.
"i don't know.. the way i see it.. or the way i work is generally to not put myself above animals.. for the most part..
and one would assume to be working for PETA... one wouldn't promote the infringement on animals rights.. hell let the animals procreate.. it isn't their fault humans are fucked right?"
They are procreating. And running rapid. Causing unfortunate havoc due to a lack of guidance as a youngster. 2 cats can create a population of over 1 million in just seven years. Talk about heavy breeding. These animals too deserves homes, or at least shelter, health care, and food. But since these animals are feral, and many times territorial/ aggressive, "rehabilitation" has come too late. Obiviously you people don't know too much about what's really going on in your areas. Instead of dissing people who you think are taking things a bit to far, why don't you foster a litter, or donate your time to your local pound. Give some goddamn attention to those that really need it, the poor animals who, due to overpopulation caused by a lack of human attention, will be put down and shipped to IAMS to be engorged by some over acessorized chi-pompom or whatever the fuck they're calling designer "dogs" these days, because of unhelpful number of people looking for a pound pup.
And as for PETA being radical, who cares? Are they giving you a bad name? Boo hoo. Take your fucking name back, by doing whatever you consider good. Some people need radical steps to see a point, not that I go out and throw red paint on fur, but can you really say that you don't want to do it whenever you see an aging socialite sipping a cocktail in a tail? You Americans are such idiots when it comes to "rights" and "individuality". People are tribe mammals, always have been and always will be. So is the price of cognitive thinking. Come on, of all the groups and foundations to attack, why do one that's pro-helpless?
"And if a dog can cause harm to another I think it should be put down too."
there's a guy who lives down my grandma's street who suffers from unpredictable violent schizophrenia who has attacked many people, even in their own homes. Should he be put down?
It's said that because you announce yourself as a vegetarian or a vegan you're automatically associated with PETA and wanting to entirely rid the world of meat as food. Some of us just don't like it, what's wrong with that?
And we never understands.
Well in response to you who think we are all hypocrites.
Why attack a group that is pro-helpless....As said they do a lot of good work, they also do some a lot of harm that goes by without the majority of people knowing about it.
Every year they break into lab facilities and let animals loose...while this seems like they are letting animals "free" they are actually condeming them to death. These animals don't know how to survive on thier own. They grew up in a box, sad yes, but by letting them go in nature they will either slowly starve to death because they dont know how to get thier own food, or they will be prey for larger animals because they don't know how to defend themselves.
So they did such a great thing saving (killing) a bunch of animals.
Thier suport an organization that you don't hear much about because it is bad press is ALF. They only reason they arent the same organization is because Peta needed a media friendly organization. They are still in communication and the same people are in charge, and Peta funds a lot of ALF's activities. ALF is considered a terrorist organization by the US governement for thier activities including setting fires to buildings and lab animal facilities.
Like I said, Peta does a lot of good things, but you have to have the mental capacity to not take everything at face value....and wonder what is my donation money going to....is it in fact to bail out someone in ALF that destroyed and burned a building down? Or is it going to good spay neuter programs and rescuing animals in need? If you want to make sure it goes to animals in need....Donate to your local Humane society, trust me they need the money more, and it will help animals in your community.
I love when you rant
everything in my mind is put into words that I can't express on my own
next year will be my first time voting
and so far I'm leaning towards Obama =]
he's the only candidate, both repub. and democrat that I want to waste my time listening to.
That schizophenic guy, in my cynical mind should, but then again so should every person because of humanity's crimes against it's nurturer. But in a more politically correct answer, no he shouldn't, that might be because he doesn't have amazing strentgh and crazy big teeth. Plus, we have antipsychotics for someone like him. It's alot harder to diagnose a problem when your patient doesn't speak the same language, or that dog's/bitch's idea of "speak" is somewhat of a hack.
And I PERSONALLY would rather survive in the "wild" near the facilities, and die trying, rather then dying from a chemical overdose I had no say in. At least releasing the animals, Darwin's theories come back into play, and it's science over scientists playing with fate. And these terrorists, are causing harm to Hummers and major corperations rather then lives. But then again, anyone standing in the way of your perfect world is really a terrorist, right?
I love animals. But I can't stand for anything Peta does. They're pushy. I actually was trying to be a vegan (I don't wear leather cause I don't like it, so I'd just have to give up meat) then a group of Peta people swarmed me at Warped Tour, I got so pissed... I went at ate a sandwhich FULL of meat. After that I sort of lost my desire... especially since more and more people come up and say "you shouldn't eat meat". And I hate being pushed. If they'd leave me alone, I might reconsider. Doubt it, but it's possible.
And dogs are the greatest animals ever. I don't think we should fix them unless they need fixin'. Except Dalmations... they shouldn't breed. But thats cause thats the only breed of any animal I can't stand. Only because when I was little one chased me down the street and then this past May one pulled my son/best friend/dog since I was 3 under a fence and killed him. And my sweet Chocolate (the name of my Yorkie that the evil dalmation murdered) still had at least 5 years to go. Ever since I can't stand dalmations. But just keep them away from me and I'm fine with sharing the planet with them. There is no such thing as a dog BORN bad. All 'bad' dogs are brought up bad. So there aren't any bad dogs but bad owners. Even the dalmation that killed my dog wasn't a bad dog to begin with. He would actually play with my dog on often occasions. Then someone did something to him that pissed him off so he killed my dog. You can't blame a whole group for one's actions.
As for the whole "you, me, no we" thing. I completely agree. Each of us are individuals, homosapians need to start acting like individials. Stop being wusses and stand up for ourselves. I literally slap a kid at my school every time he even MENTIONS a label of some sort. He is obsessed with labeling people as Goths or Preps or Emos. No. No labels. We're all individuals. The only way one can be labeled is if they label themselves and then they're just giving into society and what our ancestors created for us. They're being conformists. And I'm not saying be non-conformists that are all alike, I mean be yourself and you'll be happy. Honestly... I don't get the human race at all sometimes. Many claim to be individuals then act exactly like everyone else.
And I would stay in the country for Obama... not Hilary though, I'd flee to Canada. But lets not get into politics. =^]
You realize Peta euthanizes over half the animals they "save" via chemical overdose right?
Actually most years its more than half. In 2005 they were sanctioned by the government because they found Peta dumping 80 animals they euthanaized in a dumpster...yep a dumpster. 3 of them were a mother and her 2 kittens, that were completely disease free and completely adoptable.
And the ALF has injured animals, as well as people in thier arson efforts, not just big corporations.
But I'm sure the animals that were burned in the fires were like sure, I'll take one for the team...I mean you are doing this for me right?
All I am saying is before people put thier undying belief in something, really know what it is. Everything has a good and a bad side in the world....Everything.
Okay. So, Mr. You're-All-Hypocrites, I don't have to defend myself to you, but I am going to anyways.
First of all, do I believe a lot of people here are agreeing with Shawn simply because he's Shawn? Yes, I do. In fact, that's what almost every post on this blog consists of. It's sad to say, but many people think they are thinking for themselves while honestly they are just following in the footsteps of others. Shawn, an intelligent individual, says that PETA is bad, so PETA must be bad. Shawn's in a band and he makes music, so he must be intelligent.
These are generalizations that plenty of people make, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are correct or incorrect. In some instances they may be right, and in some they may be wrong, but that's the problem with generalizations.
Shawn, though he can speak for himself, is an intelligent person that has experienced a bit of life, and tends to know a bit about the goings-on of the world. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he is in a band. I can honestly say that if I met him just randomly somewhere, I would probably find him interesting and intelligent anyway.
But onto the issue at hand, I would like you to know, that every animal I have ever owned, and every animal my parents have ever owned, were either brought in as strays, or adopted from the pound. I think pet stores and zoos are disgusting places.
As soon as I am able to, you can bet your ass I am going to be down at the 'local' shelter, volunteering. And you know what? I don't enjoy eating meat. I hate knowing that what I am putting in my mouth had a face. It had a mother. It was born into this world, looking to do something. But you know what else? I have to eat meat sometimes. It's usually chicken, since I just have never really enjoyed the taste of red meat, but it's still meat. Eating meat is part of nature's food chain, and so is not eating meat.
I do, however, enjoy the fact that the less people eat meat, the less animals need to be killed and produced for meat and other things.
Also, to the person who mentioned vegetarians announcing it to the world, I think that's idiotic and asking for attention. Woo, you don't eat meat, good for you. Want a cookie for it? The only time I talk about it is if someone else brings up the subject, or if I am at someone's house and they are preparing a meal for me to eat. In that case, it would be rude not to bring it up, because it would look like I was just not touching their food because it looked gross or something.
I am glad, though, that you guys challenged what the overall opinion here was. It's great to see someone stand up for what they believe in, whether it be for or against what I believe in.
That was a fantatic rant, first and formost. Secondly, I have to agree with the PETA-label. Everytime someone dares utter that they have a problem with eating meat, some voice from the crowd will inevetiably declare, "PETA!" and no, I don't (fully) support PETA. I'm personally all for NOT clubing baby seals to death for clothing and hating KFC, but it's gotten to the point where I won't even mention that I don't eat meat because everyone either assumes I'm planning on blowing up animal- testing labs (which might not be that bad an idea...) or they start throwing hamburger at me. A person is intelligent, 'people' are dumb, and thats just something 'we' have to live with.
Maybe that dal killed you Chocolate because it was a Yorkie. Now that's a breed that needs to cease sex. In fact, let's chalk it up to anything under 15 lbs.
And should you really take out your hate for peta people by partaking in mass genocide? And being vegan means no dairy/animal product. No botox, cake, ice cream, cheese, or pasta! Get the facts straight you idiot.
To "sara, obv"
Really? You're waiting till you can volunteer at your shelter? That's a sweet thought. Except that if you were actually planning on doing that, you'd know you only have to be 12 to volunteer, and 14-16 without an adult. You get your facts straight too. And I think you're hating on the vegans and vegetarians of the world because you simply don't have the self control to refrain from eating meat. And you are what you eat. A pig. Oh that's right, you only eat chicken, but because you HAVE to. Which you don't actually have to you know, because I doubt anyone has a gun to your head, because is eating chicken really worth 25 to life? Are you really worth 25 to life? No, why waste so much time on such an idoit that'll kill herself with a overweight artery and a weak heart to boot. Eating meat is part of the food chain, but the laws of nature have far been twisted since the evolution of man, and with all this new technology we have, why must there be 3 cows per human? You really want to help the planet? do eat meat or animal products, and buy locally, because if it wasn't just for the cow's methane gas plugging up our greenhouse, the gas and energy it takes to get that animal alive, slaughtered, butchered, and served is far more then you want to think.
Of course I overestimate your comprehension of universal morality when I saw these things, since you are obiviously gullible to our country's media.
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^Shit, let's keep this place drama free. We're all fans of the same band here.
She's just speaking her mind. I think that you, and a lot of people posting comments here, need to just relax a bit. This isn't a message board or your own personal blog. I understand that this is a controversial topic, but there are other places to place attacks on people stating their own opinion than on someone else's public blog. Plus, that comment reeked of assumptions.
Have a little respect.
Hahaha, oh, Anonymous. You think you know me.
First of all, the only reason I am waiting to volunteer at a shelter, is because my parents work full time, and though I am 16, I don't have my license yet. At the shelter closest to me, which is actually about a 20 minutes [at least] drive from where I live, you have to be 16 or 18 to volunteer without an adult.
Trust me, I have the self control to stop eating meat. I didn't eat any meat at all for a year, and then I got really sick with mono, transversmalitis, and I became anemic. The doctors honestly told me that I should give up being a vegetarian, as I wasn't getting enough protein without it. From that point on, if I started to get sick at all, or weak, my mom would have me eat some chicken, or something high in protein so that I didn't end up in the hospital again. No, no one has put a gun to my head and made me eat chicken, but my mom has literally shoved it in my mouth.
Also, when was I 'hating on the vegans and vegetarians of the world?' I mentioned that I hate it when people feel the need to announce to the world that they don't eat meat. I'm sorry, dear, but that's not the same thing.
And hey, guess what? You're right, I didn't think about the methane gas that cows produce. I'm going to admit that I probably haven't put absolutely everything into perspective. Does that mean you have to bite my head off and assume that since I weigh more than a hundred pounds, my heart is in bad shape and my arteries are going to be clogged and kill me? No, that's just being an ignorant asshole.
In fact, my heart and blood are about the only things in my body that ARE completely healthy.
Thank you for your input though, but next time, a quick grammar/spelling check would be a bit helpful.
I may not be worth 25 to life for you, but apparently I was worth at least 10 minutes. That's really saying something, since we don't know each other at all.
Don't you just love the ruckus...
OH MY GOSH
who freaking cares.
eat your meat.
eat your greens.
WHICHEVER YOU PREFER.
if you don't want animals to be eaten, then don't eat meat.
the rest of us will figure it out for ourselves.
there is no need to go hysterical over who is the better person.
no no no-- keep fighting! It's good for circulation and metabolism.
wow shawn, how weird ihad just read an article about how peta euthenizes 85% of animals or something. you mustve seen the same one, or a similair one.
i have a vegan friend and i told him about it and he basically said the same thing u did. thats really interesting.
i didn't respect some things u did, but this totally makes me understand your point. its brilliant. its not about all the commercial stuff pet does. its about what u stand for.
brilliant shawn really. thanks for wriitng htis, i look up 2 u much more.
Oh Shawn...you do make me giggle.
Seriously guys, lets agree to disagree. Anon, we aren't all here to become little Shawn clones. That would be weird. We just enjoy what he has to say and sometimes he leaks little tidbits of Matches news to us (and sometimes he isn't supposed to). You came here for some reason and I'm not sure what but I'm sure "oh gosh I think today I'll find a random blog and start ruffling some feathers" didn't go through your head. Also, one of the main rules for having an intelligent debate or conversation is not to attack someone personally. It just makes you look stupid and mean.
Now Sara, you too made some broad generalizations which seemed a little dubious.
I don't really care. Fight all you want. I find internet arguments fun. I don't know why. That's just how I am.
ps...just a thought but wouldn't it be funny if one of the other guys came on here as anonymous just to stir the pot. I'd get a kick out of it
I love Georgia's glasses.
Yes, that was redundant. Oh, I just remembered that my doggie wears glasses too:
http://i10.tinypic.com/80zayrm.jpg
That was his Joel Madden-wannabe phase. My other dog is a Shawn-wannabe. No joke.
Thank you for that.
I also really appreciate the fact that you are a fan of pit-bulls.
I really wish Ingrid could read this. I used to work for PETA, and they do some great things, but there is also a large amount of idiocy and directionless lemming-like mob action involved in an organization meant to raise awareness and prevent animal cruelty.
Think for yourself? Agreed.
I can't believe I'm joining the blog fight, but I can't help myself.
First of all, once dogs are blood-trained like fighting pits are, they can not safely be placed in a home. There is too great a risk that if provoked, they will attack, be it other animals or people. Sadly, humane euthanasia is the only option for animals who have been abused and "trained" and raised to fight and kill.
Puppies who have not yet gone through fight-training and are not used as bait-dogs, can most certainly be adopted, once they are rescued.
What really needs to end is breed-specific legislation. Look it up.
Don't start eating meat just because you want to rebel against PETA, one person eating meat does not affect PETA. Choose to be a vegetarian or not on your own.
The world DOES need activists. Not necessarily radical suicide bombers, but activists.
The world also needs awareness, and PETA does shed light on certain industries that should be shut down because of the atrocious and horrific cruelties they commit. PETA does help shut down some of these industries through activism.
But if you support PETA, you need to know why you support it, and what you are supporting.
And if you think ALL PETA members should STFU and die, then you need to realize that the majority of progress in the world of humane animal treatment would slow, or even stop. Not that there aren't other organizations (HSUS, WWF, etc.) that do the same thing, and not that there is much progress anyway. But J.Crew did stop selling fur, so at least it's a step in the right direction. Unless you support fur, in that case, I am sorry you can't buy your carcasses there anymore.
I think people should educate themselves, and if they believe in ending animal cruelty, then they should support the fight to end animal-cruelty, not just buy a PETA t-shirt at warped tour, and feel like they have "done their part". I'm contradicting myself in a way, but if you want to use PETA as a vehicle for your activism, then you should do that, but don't do it just because everyone else is doing it, or because the t-shirt has a cute little piggy on it.
And if you don't believe that the things PETA does are right, then don't support PETA.
But who am I to tell you what to do? That is not my place. I guess I just really wish I could tell people, not what to think, but just TO think, for themselves.
This comments' length has exceeded the appropriate length for a blog comment, and I am now officially "that dude(tte) who c0mm3ntzzz on h34vy br33dIngzzz."
I agree with what you say, Shawn. The way you put it though, it made me feel stupid 'cause I can put things into words as wonderful as you can.
hahahhahahaha i've lost track.
I wonder if Jamie Lynn Spears supports PETA....
katieb
...do you want us to agree to disagree or to "fight all we want"?
I'm confused.
Maybe i'll donate a little bit to the argument. I won't lie though, this is one subject which I fully admit to being ignorant about.
I, personally, eat meat. I'm anemic and already have to take iron supplement pills. BUT, even if my blood iron levels were perfectly healthy, I'd eat meat. I enjoy meat. I believe in animal rights, I think that animal testing etc is bullshit, and if you think that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. In regards to PETA, I don't agree with most of what they do. I completely agree with some things that they do. They come off a bit strong because they have to, and they are making somewhat of a difference for THEIR beliefs. But that ties in with the 'we' thing, which also brings up a valid point. I'm not gonna get into that though, because If I do, this will get a little long.
There's a lot of assumptions flying around right now though, and that's what's pissing me off a little.
Either way, since I never said anything about the original post (probably because I had absolutely nothing to add to it, and I didn't want to say 'Oh, cool, I agree with you!!'), I really liked that. The last part had a strong ring of truth. I get into PETA debates all the time with friends and friends of friends, and this was well thought out.
allyson, I like that you admit to being ignorant about this. You don't know entirely what you're talking about, but then again, none of us really can either. I don't live with the head of PETA. I am not inside the heads of veterinarians, or heads of animal shelters.
The only things I know for positive, are things that I have witnessed with my own eyes, and been through first-hand. This in no way makes me an expert, and I never said I was.
I may not have a totally 'sound' argument, but that wasn't my point. I learned something here, and I hope everyone else did, too.
That's it, I'm done. Thanks for the healthy debate, everyone.
If anyone else wants to continue with this, feel free, but I'm out.
free download on itunes right now of Regina Spektor's "My Dear Aquaintance (A Happy New Year)"
Thought u might enjoy.
Actually "oh" I can't make up my mind. I like a nice vicious debate but saying "agree to disagree" seemed like the right thing to say. I dunno.
anyways...just got my ap yesterday and congratulations on being mentioned as part of the best of 07 polls. who knows...perhaps a band in hope will win album of the year in 08?
Mmmm you've got quite the debate going.
Personally I believe groupthink is dangerous, but I don't think that all "we"-s must become highly cohesive, insular followers. Maybe I'm still a bit too naive--too old to know everything as Oscar Wilde would say, but too young to have lost the faith that people are generally good, even when together (if they manage to avoid the groupthink pitfall, that is).
See, why is it that all the musicians I know have the same perspective as I? Obviously I think it's intelligent because I agree with it (and I'm not a moron... I think...), but my bias aside, if more people thought as broad-mindedly, the world might have fewer problems. But that involves "people" thinking and "people" don't think.
But you not eating animal products explains why Jon and Matt ate all the pizza we brought you in Santa Cruz.
Shawnfromthematches said...
no no no-- keep fighting! It's good for circulation and metabolism.
December 28, 2007 3:38 AM
So is sex, I think people should do more of that too. They would be a lot friendlier, at least I think so...
Anywho, back to the topic at hand. Your timing is impeccable, I find it a little funny that you talk about "We-phobia" right after we hear a new song called, "We Are One". I can see that your talking about different things in the post and the song, it's just a bit funny.
You sure know to rally the troops, eh Shawn?
A lot has already been said, but I'm bored and mildly annoyed with this topic, so here we go.
I think if people just stepped back and did their own thing, we'd all be a lot better off.
I haven't eaten meat for a few years now. Does that make me better than anyone does eat it? No.
I could care less about what anyone else is doing. My best friend eats meat all the time around me, does that mean I can't be friends with her? I'd go insane without her around.
It's just so stupid to me. It's like people that protest Marylin Manson concerts because he worships Satan or whatever, or people that protest homosexuality...the list goes on and on.
I just don't understand why people can't just do their own thing and be okay with everyone else doing that too.
What right do you or anyone else have to tell me what to do?
You don't, plain and simple.
I could keep going, but it will just be redundant.
P.S.- Congrats on the Top Ten/whatnot stuff in AP, you guys deserve it.
See_You_En_Tee
marvelous.
I'm a vegetarian.
"My best friend eats meat all the time around me, does that mean I can't be friends with her? I'd go insane without her around."
this applies to me too(:
hah.
Hot damn, I'm dumb.
I spent so long trying to figure out what the see-you_en_tee reference was.
JUST got it. That totally went over my head.
April, you wouldn't happen to be calling Shawn a hypocrite are you? Being "one" in music and one with peta is two different things have you know...
right after we hear a new song called, "We Are One".
what's this, I hear?
am I just out of the loop?
Did I say he was a hypocrite? Nope. I even said I was aware that he was talking about different things. I just said it sounded funny. It's pretty self explanatory.
"no no no-- keep fighting! It's good for circulation and metabolism."
hahaha oh Shawn. You are the Michael Vick of blog spot.
April= riiiight, you just implied it.
I didn't try to imply that he was, but even if I did, who cares. Shawn's a big boy, he can take it. Lord, why do I bother? I wouldn't if I didn't have the flu and bored at home with shit to do...
what the fuck? who died and made you his guardian? your comment just sounded bitchy, so I pointed it out.
i love your dog shawn.
glad u dont eat meat
come back to miami plzzz
Huh? Okay, so I don't know how I was trying to be his "guardian". It's not that serious, and I wasn't trying to offend. You are the one who was asking if I was calling him a hypocrite and apparently I was being bitchy. (Towards him? you?) Not sure. The world will not come crashing down if someone inadvertently insults him. Feel free to call me a bitch again, or whatever it is you feel like you need to do. I'm done replying. Have a good night.
You don't have to not eat meat to be an animal activist- well, okay, to support animal rights. You can not want animals to be murdered simply for luxury and still eat meat, it's not hypocritical.
Personally, I'm just a vegetarian and I have certain authorities restricting me from giving up dairy (my only set back). But I'm not not eating meat because I want to prove to the world it's "murder", as PETA calls it. I used to work with PETA and I honestly enjoyed it for a while. But now I've separated from them because they're too definite. They have those stickers that call meat murder.
I don't eat meat because I don't like it, and I want to give up dairy products because I'm gaining weight from them. Someone, somewhere probably needs meat to survive, given their condition. You can't rid the world of meat. You can, however, rid the world of cruelty towards animals being used for meat production. Yes, you're killing the animal, but don't make it suffer.
I have the same feelings when it comes to PETA, and the whole fingernail thing, that is quite disturbing.
Basically any kind of large group will have diffrent opinions, so you can't blame everyone, and you don't. I think you bring up a good point that more people need to be paying attention to.
Oh and is it really "You and me" or is it "You and I"?
I can never get those two straight.
RON PAUL 08!!!!
Anthem by Ayn Rand. The destructive consequences of "we" in a world without "I".
There's a reason "I" is capitalized. Most people just haven't figured it out yet.
Does Georgia eat meat?
WOW! I have no idea what is going on anymore because I don't feel like reading everything, but from what I skimmed, I have a few things I would like to add.
In response to the person who said this "there's a guy who lives down my grandma's street who suffers from unpredictable violent schizophrenia who has attacked many people, even in their own homes. Should he be put down?"
Well Ithink that that depends on this situation. Is that person currently receiving some form of medical attention? Are they taking some form of medication? How sever are these attacks? Have people been in the hospital for days needing medical attention for it? Or were the people just startled more then injured? If he is causing physical harm, Ithink that he should be evaluated and sent to a place where they can properly treat him. If he is such a harm to others, I think that something should be done about it. I do not believe that they should kill him though. I do not believe that any human being should be killed under any circumstance.
Unfortunately I do not have a close relationship with the animal kingdom. I think some of them or pretty adorable, but I'm basically allergic to everything. If I spend more then a certain amount of time around them I can end up in the hospital if I do not treat myself correctly. Therefore I do not have the same passion that some of you may have.
That said, I do not believe that humans and animals are equal. I personally do not believe that an animal has a soul or dignity, whereas humans do. I think that it is nice to have a pet as another companion or something of that liking, but I do not speak of them at the same level as a human.
This does not mean that it is right to kill animals for fun or to abuse them. Of course none of those things are right. Animlas should be treated humanely. I encourage people to adopt from shelters. I know that my grandparents will ONLY get their dogs from shelters and such. It is not right for any living thing to suffer. If a dog is attacking people all the time, what kind of life is that? I think that is considered a life of suffering.
Arguments over the internet give me headaches.
To whoever pointed out someone else was wrong with the volunteer shelter thing, the animal shelter by my house requires you to be 18 to volunteer and requires you volunteer at least 21 hrs per month and take 2 training sessions per year. If you knew your facts, perhaps you would know rules for volunteering vary from shelter to shelter.
Additionally, insulting someone is not going to help you win an argument. Insulting someone only makes it appear you have no rebuttal.
Lastly, all of you arguing folk need to relax those shoulders. Take a deep breath in and out. Maybe read some Tom Regan or Peter Singer articles if you're into that kind of thing.
does this thread come with cliff notes?
Will someone please elaborate on the see_you_en_tee?
PLEASE.
Anyone...
Last Anonymous,
Tea_aych_eye_en_kay.
alright.
i'm vegan.
i don't wear, eat or use any animal products.
i don't agree with everything PETA does.
i hate when people assume that i am associated with them, just because i don't eat meat.
i think the person who said they were vegetarian for a year but got sick and had to eat meat again was clearly not eating right. i mean, it's not hard to find protein these days.
and lastly, i think people need to stop following shawn like he's a god.
happy new year all.
oh, and C-U-N-T.
I agree with Heather about the person that said they had to go back to meat. I'm not saying you don't have the right to do that because maybe you have a lot of trouble finding the protein alternatives that vegetarians need to stay healthy.
But there are alternatives.
I'm a vegetarian, and I eat tofu and soy beans on a regular basis. Because I'm so young, and I'm afraid that being a vegan will not be healthy for me at this age, I don't go that far, but I still do my part. Besides, any eggs I eat I buy the free-range kind, where the chickens run happy and free :P, and I'm trying to give up milk for soymilk, but cheese. I love cheese. Real cheese is just so much better than soycheese.
But in any case, if you know where to look for the protein it's there. Sometimes I just make a bowl of edamame (soybeans) and rice with some sauce just for a protein pick up. I've been a vegetarian for 3 years and I've been ok.
I don't run around telling everyone I'm a vegetarian, in fact, I try and keep it as DL as possible because, tell me anyone if you get the same thing, people make a bigger deal of it than they should. Thanksgiving is always a nightmare and I get teased by meat eaters all the time, and that's besides being treated like some kind of circus freak by people that don't understand vegetarianism. haha
I don't care if you eat meat, I don't care if you support PETA, all that I ask is you let me do my own thing and I'll let you do yours. :]
It's not about protein - anemia is about iron. There are ways to obtain adequate iron from non plant sources but when someone has trouble absorbing the mineral they are putting their health at risk and often don't want to research this themselves. On average doctors only get about 8 hours worth of nutritional training during medical school so they recommend what they know- that meat has heme iron which is more available to human tissue than plant derived non-heme iron so they recommend it.
I agree so much. i hate the whole labelling of people in general, not just animal rights folk, because people are all different, like snow flakes, and to categorize takes away the beauty that is individuality.
whoa. run on sentence.
nice words shawn! couldn't agree more. that dog is precious...so adorable!
oh by the way have a safe and happy new year! can't wait till march! ;)
your such a vegan
"your such a vegan"
I didn't know you could be in posession of "such a vegan". Interesting.
well then you have not done your research
the last 3 comments made me giggle
i love this blog and a big part of that is the people that comment it
if any of you read this tonight (or tomorrow i guess too) happy new year!
(sorry if this ends up showing twice...i have no idea what my internet just did but i dont think it did what i wanted it to)
Isn't it obivious that you can't be in support of animal rights, then eat meat? Or are you just being picky about which animals have rights. The abuse, and yes it is abuse, that mass produced animals go through incredibly bad situations that would make Micheal Vick look like a saint compared to alot of farmers, yet they aren't sought after by the law. Sounds like species-ism. It's simple, if you make laws in accordance with animals (as pets), they should be applied to ALL animals. Eating meat isn't what's upsetting most of PETA, it's the way the animals are raised and the condition in which they are subjected. So all this "I'm pro animal rights, but I eat meat" is setting off my bullshit alarm, and I know I'm not wondering why.
Thanks for the explanation of See_You_En_Tee.
haha
Shawn is quite clever.
To the comment 2 up from me:
It's not simple. Being a meat eater doesn't make you not in support of animal rights. It just makes you a meat eater. The world is complicated for generalizations and assumptions like that, which is kind of the subject of this blog. If a person buys free range chickens and eggs from free range chickens, they are not harming animals, and they are also eating meat.
-Marie
Whoa, that reads really badly. I meant to say "too complicated" there.
I hate how I always need to make two comments when I want to say one thing. Perhaps some proof reading from now on :P
-Marie
Damn it! I also meant to thank robs for the heads up about the Regina Spektor song. End.
-Marie
Shawn, I agree with what you say.
This post has been removed by the author.
Hey "anonymous December 26, 2007 5:45 PM":
You (firstly) should have the chutzpa to reveal yourself when making unsupported/unresearched comments. You (secondly) should know that Georgia has, does and will continue to play with several of the dogs, the pit bulls, seized from Michael Vick's Virginia property. And they play just fine. No one is trying to blanket-cure this whole issue. One should judge people, animals and situations in a case-by-case manner. That being said, pull your head out of your ass before you advocate the doggie death penalty and do a quick google on the subject at hand.
Regards,
Eryn
So I'm a bit slow to the draw here, but I do have to say this:
people disagree with the things that I do. I do hunt and fish on occasion.
However, I strongly disagree with the way animals are slaughtered, getting feathers plucked via machine and slicing out eyeballs is not cool.
But on the subject, I agree with everything you say up to the Obama thing, but that's my opinion, you can keep yours.
To "Eryn"
So Georgia plays with fighting dogs, or dogs that have been exposed to fighting? Do they have old scars around the face, legs, and chest? Have their jaws ever been pried open? Don't get me wrong, I love pitbulls, live with 4, and have had 12 years of experience dealing with them. I think that dogs that have been fought against others dogs should be euthanized, as it puts out danger to humans, other animals, and the pits themselves. If the dogs that your little friend does play with have never had to deal with such violence, then no, they shouldn't be put down. I'm not some sort of doggie death reaper, so therefore I want to protect the dogs in my house, in my neighborhood, and in my world from threats such as fighting dogs. I do feel incredibly bad that those dogs had the unfair advantage of being born to the wrong breeder, and sold to the wrong owner, and if someone does want to keep this dog in an Attica style environment, with lock down protection, and all the necessities of a canine haven, then I commend thee who takes that time and effort, but it's a bit unlikely, yes?
I just want to protect other animals from harm, and one euthanized death is better then multiple maulings, according to utilitarianism.
P.S. Is Georgia a BAD RAP dog or something? Because I want to know how a couple of Virginia pups caught a 5 hour flight west, and I would think an organization or something such as BAD RAP would take the...How do I say this...Salvagable ones? Not to say the others weren't/ couldn't have been good dogs.
I can't help but laugh at all the tension i'm feelin here.
Anon-
I am not sure if the dog(s)that Georgia has played with are "fighting" dogs. I do not know their personal histories just as one never truly knows all the secrets of a rescued animal's "previous life". Scars are not always a clear indicator of the past either. I stated they were dogs seized from Vick's property.
I see that you are quite knowledgeable, kudos to you. But here is the thing: It was almost as if you did not read my post, the message being, don't make sweeping generalzations. Dogs who have had a fighting past do go on to lead happy, healthy, peaceful lives. Hope that you do the same :)
-eryn
I understand what the anonymous person is saying, though, fighting to them may become a way to live.
But if you can train a dog to fly like Superman in front of a green screen, you can sure as hell rehabilitate them.
Teaching a dog to fly in front of a green screen? So basically a "bow" command. Wow, cause that's so haaaaaard to do. Alot harder then taking a killing instinct out of an animal.
I applaud you. I only wish I had your willpower i have tried so many times to be a vegitarian but I can't seem to do it. If you have any tips as to how to stay loyal to that life choice please tell me.
This is random, but I miss your old blog about that one girl who stole your hat. Please tell that story again.
You disgust me, it was all so cool until the fricken stupid liberal/democrat comment. it's not like you can say anything though for being a Greenday and Beatles fan. Honestly. You were like my hero, my romodel, my epitome, not saying you aren't now, just not as much. It's like, Obama he doesn't know enough. If he doesn't win it's not like people will actually leave. Greenday didn't, surprised you didn't. NOT. You are this amazing person who really doesn't say much political, and then BAM. I say cool for the not-vegan thing (?), I see you are and honest to betsie hippie. Take after 3/4 of the Beatles. Good for You. I'm gonna end this with a bang. Keep your gun pointed somewher safe like at a hippie or a communist. O? are you a communist?
Sorry, I'm on D. I'm a straight up republican forced to rock by myself because people like you. You may be amazing but you don't know politics. Have fun leaving, luv. Will you stay if Hillary Clinton wins? She's kinda shrill and loud, if i hear her talk my ears will bleed. Then it's kinda annoying, her voice gurgled in with blood. Sorry, on D.
BUH BYE, LUV.
dear x-rai mercury,
have faith. there are republicans out there. not really hiding but not saying too much either. i myself like to believe that i know about politics but the sad reality is i don't know all that much so it would be rather dumb of me to engage in a debate. it is an unpopular stance that we hold and all i know is what my beliefs are. im not disgusted by the political views that other people have and that they vocalize them in the ways that they choose. i just wouldnt ever think of doing that myself and i get a tad bit disappointed. buck up!
-katie
Katie,
The sad truth is that if Rock Stars and other famous people aren't where are people getting their views? from idols like shawn, but thanx. And I'm only disgusted because he's my idol. or was.
x-rai mercury. You are a fruitnut.
Seriously, get a hobby and stop spewing your hateful shit.
if people had an ounce (or just the tiniest spark) of intelligence in them they would learn from other people as well. i have most of my views from my parents. some from the news i watch. as far as i know, i dont get any views from "rock stars". i could be wrong.
im sorry your feelings have changed towards shawn. im also sorry that some people are rather rude sometimes.
"really doesn't say much political"? Did you listen to "To Build a Mountain"? Have you read his recent posts? Or did you just completely gloss over his Huckabee mention a few posts down?
You've completely missed the point of this blog and I don't think you have any room to tell someone he "doesn't know enough" when you fail to exhibit a cogent thought.
Well, I do feel that it's best to do the research yourself and develop your beliefs on your own, as opposed to getting them mostly from your parents. However, when I was younger, I did that same, so I can't really judge.
On the other hand, shunning celebrities and rock stars for their political beliefs? Really? That's just silly. It's not like there's a flawless ideology anyway. Why judge them by one aspect that isn't even the primary reason you like them? You idolize Shawn, yet realizing he supports Obama leads you to "You disgust me"?
It's been said, but it bears repeating: you are a fruitnut.
-Marie
Awesome. I feel loved.
Fruitnut? Ace to the max. I think more highly of polotics then a lot of people. And thanx Katie. I appreciate what people are saying because i know they are strong too. Shawn, you are awesome, really. And people think different. And i'm sorry we are using your blog as a chat room.
If you honestly cared about politics, you would
1. know how to spell the word
2. improve your spelling and grammatical skills overall
I can be a "grammar nazi" but please regard this as a friendly suggestion that proper syntax it is essential if you want to convince someone you have a valid and intelligent argument.
Yes, we think oh so highly of "polotics" too.
I really want to participate in this as i have SO much to say, but I'm ignorant as hell about politics. ESPECIALLY american politics, as I'm canadian. So I don't think I could get away with sounding anywhere near intelligent.
"Teaching a dog to fly in front of a green screen? So basically a "bow" command. Wow, cause that's so haaaaaard to do. Alot harder then taking a killing instinct out of an animal."
The animals aren't hurt and aren't in any physical pain.
Pitbulls are attack dogs and are known to charge at random, but they can be trained and rehabilitated.
Like you have never spelled anything wrong before on a keyboard. Freaking i and o are right next to each other. If you're going to try to make someone sound dumb, at least have a better argument.
Ooo... I think Shawn struck some nerves...
I love it.
And I enjoy how I just sat back and watched everyone debate on a subject that NO one will agree on because it's human nature to have our own beliefs.
Haha... I read someone say something about Mrs. Clinton's voice making their ears bleed... Fantastic.
Personally, I'm neither Republican or Democrat (I was RAISED republican but I tend to flop over to the other side... so I'm a both kind of person. Support the gays AND the war! WOOT!)
But no matter WHAT I was I would never want Hilary Clinton as president.
I'm not really sure who I want in this election.
But I know I don't want her to.
Didn't like her when her husband was in office, don't like her now.
The way I see it...
If she wasn't smart enough to leave his cheating ass (which had to have publically humilated her because it'd embarrass any other woman that her husband cheated on her) when he was impeached then she isn't woman enough (or maybe even smart enough) to run this country.
This country isn't ready for a change like that anyways. It's to immature to handle a woman or a non-white guy to run it. We're simply to young of a country. Which is why we have so many issues and so many problems, we're to young.
....but that's just my opinion...
Everyone is free to have their own.
And if you're going to call me out on that "support the war" comment...
It's cause my dad is in the military and knows a lot of the secrets... And he tells us what he can and not what he can't.
So I have reason.
But I'm not telling the reasons because coming from the person that heard if from a person who was told by another person... sounds like just horrible gossip.
And I'm not gossiper.
(He did confirm that there is SOMETHING at Area 51... he just wont say what -.- Stupid legal papers making him swear that he can't say what he saw when he was there... And it's nice to have a dad you know wont tell a secret but it sucks when that sort of person has a secret you want to know... Lol)
I thought I didn't have anything else to say, but you people really amaze me sometimes.
To this x-ray person, to lose respect for someone because they don't happen to agree with you politically is really sad. You should respect him enough to accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree. I disagree with your politics, but I don't know you personally so I would never say that you were ignorant or otherwise. Simply because someone isn't vocal or open about their political views doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about. How about you respect the man for what he does, he makes music for you to listen to. That's it. His job is to be a musician, his personal opinions are just that, HIS. What someone does isn't who they are. If a person wants to post a blog about how they feel, let it be. Anything beyond that shouldn't really matter to you.
"It's to immature to handle a woman or a non-white guy to run it."
As a woman and a minority, it's really sad for me that you said this. So, you are saying that someone's ability to run a nation is based on their sex or the color of their skin? The "white guy" who's running it now isn't exactly doing a good job.
"It's cause my dad is in the military and knows a lot of the secrets..."
Secrets? I'd like to hear these. Is it a secret that 3,908 US soldiers have died, that 38,876 more soldiers have been wounded, an estimated 80,330 – 87,741 civilian deaths and casualties? For what, a war that was started on false pretense? President Bush cannot admit that he was wrong. He is too stubborn to admit his mistakes. No WMD's were ever found, no link has ever been found between al-Queda and the Iraqi regime, our country has gone into debt to cover the cost of this war. The Bush Administration has spent over $483 BILLON and counting. This war is tearing our nation apart, and we are losing respect all over the world. America needs to wake up, we are not center of the Universe. Yes, we are still the so called "most powerful Nation" in the world; but for how long? Not very, if things continue the way they are.
Hear hear, April! I definitely agree with the last part, about the war and how it affects the view on USA. As someone who is living in Sweden, I know how outsiders look at the country nowadays.
did anyone else laugh at the irony of the first post?
^ the "you are such an amazing way of putting together words"? Yeah, I laughed at that. That person's way of putting words together was rather unamazing :P
And hell yeah April, kick ignorance in the balls.
-Marie
Before you critcize the war, why don't you remember that you probally don't know all the things you don't know about the war/what's really happening. Just admit that maybe you don't know all the facts, maybe because they haven't been released, or because you don't watch every presidential speech given. If you do, bravo, because you're probally the secretary of defense, of the secretary. But please don't go preaching facts snd quotas given by papers, tv, websites, etc. because it should be common sense that you don't know everything you need to know about the war to criticize or support it.
Not just my opinion. Common sense.
Don't pull that "I'm a female and a minority" bull on me.
I'm a female and I treat everyone like an equal.
I said that comment because it's true. We're not ready.
And just because someone is a white male doesn't mean they'll do good, I'm just saying they would be more accepted by the whole country.
You're probably one of those people that will vote for a girl or a minority because they are a girl or a minority. Not because they are the right person to run the country.
And you only know the numbers the news puts out. You don't know the facts.
It's people like you that caused the Haulocaust to be as bad as it was. How's that feel? You killed millions of jews.
Why do I say that?
Cause people against the war because of money and the fear of our brave soldiers dying was why the president then waited so long to put people in the war. He was scared that people like that would kill him for it or hate him for it. He didn't want to be put down in history as the worst president ever. He finally said "Screw you" and we went over and saved people. Of course we killed people and lost soldiers but not half as many as what would have been killed if we didn't go over there.
It's the SAME EXACT situation this time except in a different area and Bush didn't wait for your approval. He went in and took care of what he thought needed to be done. It's the media that is putting all this "It's for Oil." "It's for weapons of mass distruction" and whatever else they're putting out into our houses. The media doesn't agree with the war and neither does most of America.
Like I said, we're to immature to handle this junk and we don't understand.
So don't get all pissy with me.
If you don't want to stand behind the troops at war then go ahead and stand infront of them.
And I completely agree with the other person that posted as anonymous that said that you don't know all the facts.
Because you obviously don't.
...gah, now I'm pissed off.
Thanks.
PS:
Remeber 9/11
Yeah.
Our literally innocent people were killed.
So why is it so wrong to teach the people that did it a lesson?
Teach them "don't mess with us ever again"
We did it to Japan.
They came, killed our people at Pearl Harbor, for no real reason.
So we took a bomb and BAM! they learned their lesson.
They haven't messed with us since.
We could just do that again.
But we're trying to be politically correct, keep human rights people from yelling, and we're doing this war instead of just dropping a bomb or two.
But HEY... thats why I'm not president.
I think you are very naive to think that the war is primarily about teaching anyone a lesson for wrongs done to the US.
It's about oil.
"And you only know the numbers the news puts out. You don't know the facts.
It's people like you that caused the Haulocaust to be as bad as it was. How's that feel? You killed millions of jews."
That's the thing. Numbers don't lie, they are facts. Did I make those statistics up? NO. The "facts" that you seem to know that no one else does, please tell us because obviously I am in the dark. Are these facts you got from your father, who is in the military? And who's the Commander in Cheif of the Armed Forces? George Bush.
To say it's people "like me" who caused the Holocaust is a bit reaching. To say that this is the same situation and if Bush hadn't gone to war the same thing would have happened? I hope you honestly don't believe that. See, by saying this you are giving an opinion, your theory on what would have, or could have happened.
"So don't get all pissy with me.
If you don't want to stand behind the troops at war then go ahead and stand infront of them."
Not getting pissy, just giving my thoughts, just like you are.
I have to disagree with the whole idea you have though that if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. You can definitely support them, without supporting what they are doing. Hell, I KNOW many members of the military that are fighting in the war right now that don't want to. They are being forced to fight a war they don't believe in. I have family, friends, neighbors, etc. in the military. They have the maturity to understand that not everything Bush does is right. Even if they disagree with me and do support the war they realize that you supporting them is not one in the same.
"Remeber 9/11
Yeah.
Our literally innocent people were killed.
So why is it so wrong to teach the people that did it a lesson?"
Like I said before, and you may not believe it. There is no link between Al-Queda and the Iraqi Regime. 9/11 was a terrorist attack from Osama Bin Laden and Al-Queda. He has claimed responsibility for it. Al-Queda is an Islamic Extremist group that believed that America was evil and deserved to be punished. Yes, this was wrong. But this has NOTHING to do with the war in Iraq. Saddam's regime is/was a very secular group. These two groups, while I am sure had some communication were never proven to be tied together. Why would someone who had radical religious beliefs be in ties with someone that was so secular and sinning in many similar ways Osama claimed the US was? If you want to say this war is over 9/11, realize that Iraq was never proven to be behind that attack.
This in my OPINION, and obviously the opinion of many, many people around the world is a war for oil. It's a war for power, it's a war for a man who has an agenda and is willing to tear his country apart to fulfill it.
Also, I've NEVER claimed to know all the facts, I've never said I knew it all. Just giving my thoughts and telling you what I know.
you have stolen the words that are in my head everyday.
words that make me admire you for writing.
but- that's nothing particularly new.
i'm glad to hear that you're for obama.
i feel lame for not having interesting to add, but all i can really do is nod my head.
Wow... I am shocked by the ignorance of a lot of you.
Someone on here basically said "let's go over and bomb the fuckers, teach 'em a lesson."
Don't you think the outside world has a negative view of us already?
We're trying to make peace... not teach a lesson.
Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed off about the thousands of innocent people killed that September, I'd love to kill the lot of them, but it's not a good idea for a number of reasons:
1) It's not our objective.
2) It makes us as bad as they are.
3) What does it solve?
Not a good idea, is it?
i wish we had a new blog to fight over. this one is about maxed out on controversy.
i can honestly say that i don't think i've ever met anyone that was for a war simply because it was something to do. i don't think this one is for oil but a war on terrorism is like a war on i don't know rocks or something. it's always going to be there and it's something that cannot be stopped. another opinion i have is that Bush has screwed up. big time. but he's not this evil killer that people would like to see him portrayed as. i think he's just in the wrong place, in the wrong time and with people not so great informing him. and btw april...you do see pretty pissy sometimes. actually like a lot. that's just how you come off
This post has been removed by the author.
I just reread my last comment and I want to change it a little. I didn't mean to say that the war is only about oil, but that's kind of how I came off.
I do think a large part of it is about oil, though. To say that it's primarily about eradicating terrorism doesn't really make sense because terrorism is everywhere. It's like trying to eliminate crime. You can't change human nature, and I think to sacrifice so many young, healthy people for the sake of a problem that can never be fully fixed anyway is careless and wrong. You have to know when to stop.
-Marie
I think it's a little ignorant to direct every negative comment about the Bush administration directly at one man. One man has not caused everything that's gone wrong in this country, an administration has. That's something like accusing a pawn for losing a chess game.
Why should I accept your opinion when you wont accept mine?
You're calling me names that I know I'm not.
You are claiming to know everything about it.
I don't appreciate being called names and if you're going to stoop down to that level then I don't want to have anything else to do with you.
Lets just agree to disagree before I get even angrier.
"and btw april...you do see pretty pissy sometimes. actually like a lot. that's just how you come off"
That's not an entirely bad thing. At first I didn't think so, but now that I really think about it I'm glad you said that. To me, it just means that I have always been vocal about how I feel and stuck by it. It obviously offends people, but really most people that disagree do get offended. Not a bad thing at all...
" I think it's a little ignorant to direct every negative comment about the Bush administration directly at one man."
I'm aware that it's his whole administration. I admit I dislike the man, but obviously it's not just him.
"I don't appreciate being called names and if you're going to stoop down to that level then I don't want to have anything else to do with you."
I called you names, or are you talking to someone else? I don't recall calling you names, but maybe you took something I said as a direct insult towards you.Sorry. Yes, I DO disagree with what you say, that's obvious. I don't agree with a lot of what you have to say but I never said you couldn't say it. There's no need to get angry about it, if everyone got angry anytime someone disagreed with them, no one would ever be happy.
"Lets just agree to disagree"
Alright.
I think controversy is a good thing. It gives people a chance to voice their opinions. I have to say that I agree with the people that are against the war. The US is making some huge mistakes. Anyways, it's nice to read things like this instead of hundreds of replies about how awesome Shawn is and how he makes all these girls cream their panties. It's obvious if someone is reading his blog, their a fan. It isn't necessary to write about all the time.
"That's not an entirely bad thing."
I'm not trying to make waves here, but yes it is.
If you seem pissed all the time, your points won't seem valid and you won't be able to hold an actual argument.
This is my last comment on this post.
To be viewed as pissy and actually being pissed are two different things. I meant that if people sometimes view me that way I don't really mind. I am not pissed, just strong minded (like a lot of people here). At least that's my opinion. I know that there are people here that agree with me, so obviously my point got across to some.
So, yeah... I think I'm done too. I was just wanting to give my thoughts on the war and the current administration, not start another "war".
"I know everything. Take me for who I am, not for what I say!" If and when people perceive you as pissy means you were at some point. It's true. You may not realize it, but you lose any strands of an actual argument, and potential friends depending on how you look at it, when you come off that way.
shwn i wannas kno if urly read on hur? lik rly now.
Oh, and April, comparing yourself to people here now? I thought you took the people here as Shawn-wannabe-clones? Irony.
Back to 'polotics'-fighting though, that's more entertaining.
This argument is kind of dead to me now that people are just insulting each other. It was exciting for a while when everyone was sharing their personal beliefs and why they have them, but now it's just bickering about who is right and the proper way to argue and some other crap I don't care about.
And why is everyone freaking out on April? It's not like you can really know someone's disposition after reading like 5 things they said. Way to be judgmental.
Meh, I can't be done yet, because I want to respond to the anonymous who posted saying that the war isn't about weapons of mass destruction or oil.
Ummm, last time I checked, we started a war in Iraq kind of unprovoked (since no ties to 9/11). Sure, we didn't find any WMD's, but you can bet that we are fighting over there because we are afraid that they will get them (we know they want them) and blow our asses up.
The US is the largest consumer of oil. And not only that, it consumed almost 3 times more than the second highest consumer (China) in 2006). Who controls the oil in the Middle East, one of the world's greatest resources for oil? "Terrorists."
If you still think that the war is about being some kind of world police, doing everyone a favor by getting rid of all of the bad people so they can't hurt their countrymen anymore, then you are very naive. I'm not claiming that this isn't one cause, but you need to recognize that there are several motivators.
Why did you act as if people who disagree with you don't support the troops? The whole, if you don't stand behind them stand in front of them thing. I'm pretty sure everyone here supports our troops, it's just a difference of opinion on what supporting them means. Maybe it means leaving them over there to fight in honor of those who already died. Maybe it means bringing them home asap so the death can end. Whatever, we'll probably never agree. But accusing anyone here of not supporting the troops is ridiculous.
Annnnd it is incredibly immature to claim that someone here doesn't know all of the facts. Actually, you don't either. No one knows everything and understands from every angle. You are just making yourself seem egocentric and ignorant.
Marie's. Last. Post. Is. Correct.
I've gotta agree with marie.
on both points.
I keep checking back and reading this but don't add anything because I'm Canadian, and i know almost nothing about American politics.
I strongly agree with certain tings being said, and strongly disagree with others.
Either way though, I like seeing people voice their opinions.
Not personally attack and insult each other because that just leads to nowhere and gets boring. Fast.
I never claimed to know all the facts.
I just pointed out that neither do you.
And like I said, I don't appreciate being called naive when I know I'm not.
Being called naive is like being called a name and I don't appreciate it. Please stop.
And you are aware the April has posted comments in other blogs?
She seems pissy in some of those too.
So it's not just 5 comments, it's all her comments combined.
We're not being judgmental, we're being honest.
And I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, I was just trying to state and support my opinion. But when someone does that then obviously the people that don't agree have to come and try to change someone's opinion. You can't just argue with someone to change their opinion.
You have to respect them and say "Sure, but think of it this way"
The way you approached it was to make people like me put a wall up and not accept anything you say or respect it because you're not repecting me or anything I say.
In something like this, you have to respect each other to get a point across.
Now, as I've already said.
Lets agree to disagree.
"Oh, and April, comparing yourself to people here now? I thought you took the people here as Shawn-wannabe-clones? Irony."
I think it's that comment that really got you offended. Some people here are wanna be clones. I don't think she ever said all. No one on here knows everything about everyone else. I agree with Bike theif get off of it. It's the internet people not real life.
As for this argument over the war, I have seen friends and family get into it over topics of war, no one is ever going to agree or get along. Especially strangers on some blog.
This blog has basically turned into a bunch of mindless bickering.
whoever said the clifnotes thing, im right with ya...
wow. this makes a lot of sense. i get stuff from PETA al the time. actually, they scare me a bit. they tend to be extreme and scare people off
all republicans are fat white people
wow...that last anonymous crossed the line. way to generalize dumbass!
all liberals are skinny black PETA reps
All anonymous posters have a great deal of charm.
I'm going to disagree with that stereotype lover anonymous.
I mean...
My friend is a liberal ALL the way... and he's a fat Mexican (looked like a dinosaur before he got his braces taken off... now he looks like a teddy bear. Teehee) So there, I just busted your generalization.
You know what...
Now I'm in the mood to go look at cute puppies.
I love red bloodhounds way to much.
I don't have one though... *tear*
I've got a Golden Retreiver (a girl named Sadie... cause she liked to bite really hard for fun, so we named her after Marquis de Sade... basically, the guy that came up with the term Sadism haha) and 2 Yorkies (A girl named Bella after Bela Lugosi and a boy named Beast... cause my mom thought it was a cute name for a yorkie mate for Bella...)
every time you post a new blog, it's like a present. sometimes i don't agree with you but what you write appears very truthful. i can't get enough.
dear other anonymous
dick cheney is fat and white
bam.
emeril lagasse made that last comment.
dear anonymous
emeril lagasse knows there was always a reason for the elephant.
March 18th
Thank you.
finally i know what day im looking forward to!
Dear Anonymous with that Dick comment,
You said ALL. You named one.
You proved nothing.
I don't see what that had to do with anything though.
just thought I'd add...Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell are both republican, both black and neither of which are fat.
jesus shawn. guessing the title of a song is tough. i feel crazy
Wow.
I didn't know i was white...or fat. Now i'm gonna go cry and cut my wrists. Not really because i don't give a shit about liars. I honestly had no idea that all republicans are fat and white. And fyi "ass" is a bad word accept when you are talking about donkeys...or democrats. WHAT NOW?
I absolutely love saying Condoleezza Rice's name...
It's fun.
You have to say it a certain way though.
Cond-a-liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiza Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
(...I broke it up the way you have to say it to make it really fun the best way I could...)
My friend shouted it that way in the middle of class to answer some question about 2 years ago... and it's still fun to say it.
ANYWAYS-
We should just ignore that person and maybe they wont be trying to defend their horrible stereotypes.
Right..
Pretty sure everything that can be said HAS been said, well done everyone. :)
yeah, ACCEPT when you're talking about donkeys...
IT'S CALLED THE PREVIEW BUTTON.
Fuck yeah March 18th.
Hey, be nice.
Don't act like you've never made a mistake before.
And I can't put into words how happy I am that there are 14 songs on the new album... oh, and that the release date is out...
14 is my lucky number... so... thats why I'm excited about that... I'm not psycho. (...completely... lol)
Oh 14 tracks! This excites me because I am one of the, probably many, people that suggested that number. YES! I'm sure my opinion had no impact on your final deliberation, but I'm going to think that it did. Yeah.. I'M SPECIAL!
You recommended it too?!
HIGH-FIVULATION!!!
I recommended it because it's my lucky number... plus, E. Von Dahl Killed The Locals had 12 and Decomposer had 13, so I found it fitting... Haha.
I'm a very skinny black girl who's a republican. What now?
OBAMA '08
Wow. I've often pondered this "we" thing and I was never really able to come up with a way to say it to others that would make sense. So thank you, Shawn Harris, Thank You.
Also, I pretty much died when I read 'Vick-etnam'. Good stuff.
AH! Another thing, you should totally be James Dean this Halloween. You could pull it off.
Anyhoo, I hope you have a wonderful day!
Loves!!
Morgan
So, as I came across a bit over half way point on the scroll bar,
about to make the move for a couple more comment views, I realized what it was I was doing and felt disgusted.
I spent 30 minutes just taking in the multiple arguments via internet. The human race should show more compassion. Lets all exchange cell numbers, caught the next 9 oclock flights and have a real brawl. Shall our meeting place be oakland? I'll come just for referee purposes. I'd hate to unlease a fight worthy of michael Vicks closet on California streets.
the things you say are put together so well, i don't think anyone can state opinions the way you do. the decisions people make shouldn't be influenced by others, it should be a personal choice. i didn't choose to stop eating meat because of peta, i did it for the lives that are being saved. kudos.
Shawnfromthematches,
I'm glad Obama was elected for many, many reasons. You staying in the country is one of them!
Best Regards,
Emily
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