Dave McWane (of Big D and the Kid's Table), how do we agreeably refer to members of an audience or line which we sing and dance before? They've commonly been (derogatorily?) referred to as "the kids" (i.e. "the kids are all right", or "the kids dig emo"). Being legally a kid, which a good deal of the audience is not, frankly was a difficulty I would not wish on anyone to the point that the name "kid" seems an insult.
X-ing that one out, the term "fan" is presumptuous, we've agreed. Calling someone a fan holds the same possible anvil of embarrassment as waving back at someone you vaguely know from a distance, only to find their gaze extends beyond you to a stranger behind you. When their attention is averted by your waving and you are tractor beamed in their eyes, which are visibly searching for recognition-- that is the equivalent of the termed "fan" responding with a furrowed brow, and admission he’s only heard a couple of your songs (and there, you've just peed on him as your territory, dickhead). He will then hesitate, as both parties silently battle over who can better contain their embarrassment, and when he loses, he’ll add "but the stuff I've heard is pretty rad."
"Pretty" is a passively hurtful word, and everyone knows it. You use it when you are obliged to say something that you feel contrary toward. The more contemporarily removed the adjective it modifies, the more "pretty" negates and then oppositely polarizes it's meaning. Here is a list of words which when modified by "pretty", range from awkward(1) to "stab yourself. now."(8)
1. neat
2. sweet
3. dope
4. bomb
5. badass
6. badazz
7. unstoppable
8. amazing
As you are aware, "pretty amazing" is mythical. Amazing is meant to be the summit of greatness. You can't sorta plant a flag in the top of Everest or kinda beat the Russians to the moon. "Pretty amazing" aint talking, that's just spit mistaken for words.
Back to the terminology query at hand...
The consumers? No-- the whole download torrent loophole technically doesn't make a good number of them monetarily invested. Demographic? Too record label spreadsheet. Masses? (could you really refer to that Myrtle Beach crowd of 12 as such?)
Names... such cages.
Shawn
X-ing that one out, the term "fan" is presumptuous, we've agreed. Calling someone a fan holds the same possible anvil of embarrassment as waving back at someone you vaguely know from a distance, only to find their gaze extends beyond you to a stranger behind you. When their attention is averted by your waving and you are tractor beamed in their eyes, which are visibly searching for recognition-- that is the equivalent of the termed "fan" responding with a furrowed brow, and admission he’s only heard a couple of your songs (and there, you've just peed on him as your territory, dickhead). He will then hesitate, as both parties silently battle over who can better contain their embarrassment, and when he loses, he’ll add "but the stuff I've heard is pretty rad."
"Pretty" is a passively hurtful word, and everyone knows it. You use it when you are obliged to say something that you feel contrary toward. The more contemporarily removed the adjective it modifies, the more "pretty" negates and then oppositely polarizes it's meaning. Here is a list of words which when modified by "pretty", range from awkward(1) to "stab yourself. now."(8)
1. neat
2. sweet
3. dope
4. bomb
5. badass
6. badazz
7. unstoppable
8. amazing
As you are aware, "pretty amazing" is mythical. Amazing is meant to be the summit of greatness. You can't sorta plant a flag in the top of Everest or kinda beat the Russians to the moon. "Pretty amazing" aint talking, that's just spit mistaken for words.
Back to the terminology query at hand...
The consumers? No-- the whole download torrent loophole technically doesn't make a good number of them monetarily invested. Demographic? Too record label spreadsheet. Masses? (could you really refer to that Myrtle Beach crowd of 12 as such?)
Names... such cages.
Shawn
55 Comments :
I love the way you write Shawn. It's *pretty* awesome! haha
"you people"
Interestingly enough (or not), I'm the type that buys every record of a band I dig, attends all shows within two hours, makes brownies, ect, and it *still* pisses me off to be called a fan. It simply makes me feel like less worthy of a person than the artist, because I'm ridiculous.
Now, that being said, I have absolutely nothing against being referred to as "the kids". Yes, at first glance, "kid" may appear degrading. However, take a closer look. When used in the plural, as in "This one's for the kids", the word leaves you with and entirely different feeling then when your uncle tells you that a certain movie is not meant for a "kid like yourself". Also, let’s be honest, the meaning a word possess and the weight it holds largely depends on the one who uttered it.
Example: When the lead singer of Big D (I'm not cool enough to know his name off hand) tells you that "kids" is degrading, you will most likely refrain from using the word on stage for the better part of the rest of your life. On the other hand, twenty-five "fans" could post on this page and contradict Mr. Big D's (ha) theory, and yet you would most likely never feel comfortable using "kids" again. Yes, you may use it occasionally to humor your blog readers, but in the back of your mind, you would always feel like a dick when you spouted it.
In the same way, when a band onstage refers to the crowd, collectively, as "The Kids", a sense of community is immediately, inevitably, created. Yes, we are The Kids, whether we are twelve years old or thirty-five. We stand together, united in our mutual love of the music that is currently meeting our hungry ears. For a half an hour, we are anonymous, one small limb of a much larger body. We accept the fact that the band we feel we "know" has no idea who we are and what our individual name is. Surely we deserve something of an affectionate nickname such as "The Kids". In fact, one might even make the case that, in using the otherwise degrading "Kids", we are, in fact, taking the "Kids" back. You've seen it in all walks of life, everywhere you turn (E.g.: Girlfriends lovingly referring to each other as sluts).
But it’s no matter. We've already established that, because of your conversation with Mr. Big D, "Kids" is destroyed for you forever. So, onward and forward- a list of possible names:
"Shitheads"- Yes, there is still a bit of charm left in this word, if used conservatively and complimented with a smile.
"Cats" or something similarly old school- We can all chuckle at your mini attempt at irony. If overused, this one has the potential to become extremely annoying
"Jersey" or whatever state you may be in- I always love hearing my states name screamed on stage because my life is somewhat pathetic. Obviously, there will be plenty of out-of-staters in the crowd, but no offense will be taken. In the past, I've had no trouble gleefully obeying when a band member commands that Philly "get the fuck up".
"You"- The safest, least offensive, most uninspired.
Just a warning: Overusing any phrase that generalizes the audience and addresses the crowd as a whole puts a distinct distance between the band and those gathered to see them. Perhaps this is the real problem, in which case there is no simple solution.
Well. I may have put a bit too much thought into this.
Much love,
Kat
Haha 'badazz'...
I think you may have the exact reason why when I hear someone say "that's amazing" or "it's amazing", I take it to heart.
Now I wonder, what happened to make you think about this ?
Oh, and please don't die from heatstroke. I hear it's pretty damn hot in Texas.
Drink lots...of water. Ha.
♥ V
i totally agree i hate *names* its degrading sometimes and just gets annoying... especially when someone refers to me as a fan or emo kid that last one really pisses me off
<3
Punters, Shawn.
Punters...
Haha punters!
I forgot to say something about it being Friday the 13th.
Though I have nothing interesting to say about it...
Besides maybe getting a haircut today is a bad idea, and I'm doing it. :)
♥V
(and there, you've just peed on him as your territory, dickhead).
yooooooooo! this made me luahg uncontrollably.
YO YO YO victoria. im getting a haircut to :) your my best innnnternerd friend.
me and erica shoudl come on here and have horrible conversations. HA
okay bad ideas.
i completely went off topic and i compeltely butcher the english language via spelling.
i love the word via.
holy crap stop talking.
I read all the other comments first before commenting so I don't end up saying things that have already been said. In this post's case, kat has said everything that needs to be said (thanks kat for taking all the ideas...jeez)! I think calling us kids would be fine. I don't find it offensive in the least (of course I am still only 17 and can be referred to as a kid in some cases). And I agree that addressing the crowd too often as a whole makes the collective "us" feel like you are putting yourself above us or distancing yourself from us which I don't think you want to do but if it is, carry on! I'm going to think that you will use the obligatory rock star "Whats up Pittsburgh" or "Hello Pittsburgh" when you come by. (I think you should be facing the wrong way and scream "Hello Pittsburgh. Where are you Pittsburgh!?!" cuz Spinal Tap references are always awesome).
Lets have a small recount shall we?
1 kat took all my ideas
2 i dont mind being called a kid
3 collective crowd addresses are not cool
4 most bands address the crowd by the where the concert is
5 Spinal Tap references are OK in my book
6 I'm super excited to see you in less than a month!
Much Platonic Love!
♥Katie
That blog was pretty amazing.
(ha)
Oh no, AshleyPINKHAM is stalking me...
I should call her academic parole officer.
Haha, got you there Pinkham!
Oh, and Erica never replyed to the "WE LOVE PICKLES!" thing so no.
Ha.
♥ V
In my rush to leave such a smartass comment I didn't realize the joke had already been done (and in the first comment too!). I apologize for that.
yo. dont be jealous of my last name.
im officially in charge of sayign yo.
I don't really think what you call us really matters in the end, as long as you appreciate us as much as we appreciate you. And, I'm pretty sure you do that, so whatever you wish to call us is fine :)
YO.
Just say "hey all you sexy people out there". For some it will be true and for others it makes them feel good about themselves. Who doesn't like compliments?
YOOO! people are stealing my last name and posting comments
BITCHES
haaaaa
pinkham is not weird.
im protesting
:)
How about the Hoi Polloi?
Actually, in spite of my technically-being-an-adultdom, I don't personally mind being called a kid. There's a difference between a kid, a teen, and a child, and I think it's in the state of mind.
PINKHAM PROTESTS!
I'd like to see a video of that.
Haa!
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...and badazz, really? People actually use that word? If so, who are you hanging out with, a street gang from a Michael Jackson video?
interesting points. this was one of the few blogs i could follow and i got a 740 on my literature sat section.
u should call us something unique to the matches
liek the band punchline calls there fans punch kids, we should be liek the lighters. i was considering making a tribute band called th elighters with songs liek healthy big birth and destination somewhere here etc.
or u know what would be REALLY GOOD tha ijust thought of u could call us that thing u strike matches on. im gonna look up what theyre called now:
i got this from wikipedia, which is where u got your bio frmo so it must be a good sourse. (btw i love your bio in about me. its soi original and true.
"
In 1973, a federal mandate in the U.S. required the striking surface to be moved to the back of the package. (These are referred to as "back strikers" or "reverse strikers", while pre-1973 covers are called "front strikers".)"
well it seemed lieka good idea if only the thing u strike matches on had a catchier name. but the strikers is "pretty" cool
Chris either has no fingers or he types with his eyes closed.
so shawn...
my friend told me that you said you thought i was "sweet" after you got off the phone with me that one time..
... o__o...
i'm crushed. =p
I would opt for friends you haven't gotten to know very well yet :)
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Calling us "kids" isn't really offensive; I think it's more just an authority thing. Like, when I first met you guys in 2005, you seemed like down-to-earth, fame-not-gone-to-the-head kinda guys, like you're just like anyone else (but more talented than most). But then calling the dedicated fans "kids" kinds feels like we're your subordinates, that you're wayyy better than us, and I'm sure that's not what you aim for! So.... still thinking of something awesome. Lighters is a good idea, just don't know how good that would work. But something along those lines!
You know, I think the term "pretty" as a pre-adjective really depends on the way you say it. Like when we were walking past All Time Lows, and I stopped like, Wow, they're pretty good! In that case, it's sort of an unexpected good. Or when 'm listening to some metal kids trying to promote their album, I'll listen and say it's pretty good, but not my type... by "pretty," I mean "I don't like it, but it's good enough that I know other people will." But you're right, "pretty amazing" just doesn't cut it compared to say, "absolutely amazing" or just "amazing."
Still tryin' to think of a name for your "kids." Kids is endearing, but... like I said...
I'm 29 and when I am at one of your shows or any show at the bar, the moms and dads always ask if I brought my kids to see the show. I say no and they look embarrassed. So I completely understand the conundrum you are faced with.
Once again, you made me laugh XD
Like a few other posters, I don't have a problem with being referred to as a 'kid'. That said, it would only feel right if I was being called that along with everybody else, as in, I wouldn't like it if I was singled out and called a kid..
Yeah, um.. No idea if that makes sense but yeah, thats just how I feel.
"Oh, and Erica never replyed to the "WE LOVE PICKLES!" thing so no.
Ha."
I never have anything good or "solid?" enough to say on these comments except for how good the blog was so I don't post here.
BUT
hi?
I am not a fan of pretty... I prefer the word SWANKY!!! It is one of the best words in the english vocabulary!
I understand the "kid" thing. I've seen only three people at a Matches show that actually qualify under that term.
Language as a general, I've found, is a cage. Especially in our society today.
But then again, I supposed writing good songs is harder if you have no words. Unless you're Explosions In The Sky. But that's something else entirely.
erica is a moron.
yeah i said it you aint got shit onnn meee erica.
ohhh my.
let me say something semi-intelligent: call us whatever you damn well please to call us. whatever comes to mind. sexy bitches?
yeah that might not go over well.
i dont think anyone minds to much.
just test a couple out, see the audiences reaction and go from there.
the end.
I hate it when bands come to northern Jersey and are like "HEY NEW YORK!"
WHAT THE HELL, WE ARE NOT NEW YORK! GET IT RIGHT!
Haha I kind of liked the idea Chris put up, but no, I won't go on to beat the dead horse and say it was 'pretty awesome', no matter how tempting it is.
You seem to have pondered about this little puzzle of what to call those of us who watch, hear, and follow your band's music, but I'm confident that the genius in you, Shawn, will come up with a solution both witty and as bright as the sun that faces you south of the border.
:]
how about peers, friends, or brothers and sisters?
-the cereal killers.
Even your rage fuelled rant is beautifully written. But I do agree names, as well as labels destroy everything.
PINKHAM and Erica = Horrible, Horrible people.
Hi.
Or should I say yo ? :)
you guys have one of the best shows that i have ever seen! i saw you yesterday and i really appreciate it how you put thought into what you say, unlike lots of the other bands playing.oh, and please be careful in the heat!
I, too, fall under the category of "not-kids, but don't mind being referred to as such (by certain people)." This might stem from my odd habit of calling people (whether they be preteen or several years my senior) "kiddo," with no derogatory component or feeling of personal superiority intended. No one's complained yet.
"The kids" imparts a feeling of familiarity that I'm sure most of your...er...fans?...would embrace.
I'm not one to feign eloquence or any thing akin to that. But I must say that calling us, as fans, "kids" isn't as degrading as it is generic. For some bands they have special names for those whom truly know them (aka. the punch kids, camp tai, etc). So perhaps instead of racking your brain for a replacement word that is equally meaningless to us all, why not have something a little more tailored to the rest of us?
well thx 2 the person who liked my idea, at first i was just kind of ranting but it could be a cool idea to do a name something along the lines i was thinking, but i also see the point how that'd classify us. anyways just a joke.
and sry my typing isnt the best. i just type real fast and screw up a lot. i should work a lot harder considering that this is the shawn harris's blog.
Wow, only you Shawn... Well I live in South Carolina, so I know about how lame the MB crowd can be.
i tried to think of something fun that could be an endearing term for those that follow & love your music, but all i could come up with was matchites and that's craptacular. but i definitely like the lighters idea. it follows the same lines i was trying to go down, but it's much better.
but if all else fails you could say Hey you guys, but you'd have to say it like Sloth in the Goonies.
then again you do seem mighty fond of using "you's" often, so that's unique to you & works nicely in my book.
Simple.
Short and sweet.
Human?
Person?
Fellow being?
Admirer, even? No... To trespass over the line from "fan" to "admirer" implies a degree of stalking on the "admirer's" behalf as the "admired" continues to be just incredibly rad.
I would say there is no word to describe the living, breathing, loving, hating, and quite alive members of our human race that enjoy your musical and visual concoctions of brilliance.
Too much?
I contacted your pal Austin for a Warped Tour interview with you on August 23rd (in the blistering land of Sacramento) for the University of San Francisco Foghorn (our underrated, student-produced newspaper) and I do hope you could spare a millisecond of your energy for my tape recorder.
Until then--Thank you.
Well, I have to say - Only you, Shawn Harris could write such an interesting blog on an otherwise sticky subject - language.
Personally, I don't mind being referred to as a "kid" even though I'm actually a mom of two "kids" as long as it's used affectionately.
However, I took your lead, from an earlier blog, and went to thesaurus.com to see what it had to offer. Here are the results:
admirers, assemblage, assembly, congregation, crowd, devotees, fans, following, gallery, gathering, hearers, house, listeners, market, moviegoers, onlookers, patrons, playgoers, public, showgoers, spectators, theatergoers, turnout, viewers, witnesses
Very interesting indeed -
I really like the term "gallery". Especially since The Matches are such a dramatic sort.
I'm sure that Warped is a whole other experience, since there is such a wide variety of music represented, however, I still think the term is suitable.
Please take care of yourself and all your mates out there on the road and have a great time!
(I know, spoken like a mom)
~bernadette
pretty interesting.
though i think i simple "you all" to the crowd would sufice, i think most "fans" would be pleased if you simply addressed them in any way.
i would just like to say that all though i know many a people have told you this before, i admire youre work because you're truly a creative person, not just someone mindless babbling lines to a melody.
I like "the crowd" as in the crowd was digging us, or "the audience", as in the audience is listening.
However, I am a FAN of the Matches and hopefully a friend too.
HEY YOU'SE GUYS: BBQ in my back yard when you get back from tour. The house is now BLUE!!!
Since I am legally a 'kid' I can deal with the term, although no self-respecting teenager actively aspires to be called such. I definatly think crowds deserve a better designatation then "The Kids". Or better yet, they should have no pre-decided designation at all. Refering to a crowd as the city in which they have congregated increadibly uncreative. Maybe The Crowd is suitable name because that's what they really all. Just another crowd.
Happy Warping
Cya in Barrie.
Marlee
To define is to limit - Oscar Wilde
since no one caught this..
what is big d's problem with "kids" i mean.. it is after all "big d and the KIDS table" is it not?? haha.
Wonderfully spoken. :)
"Alkaline Trio came by our set yesterday...and that was pretty amazing..."
Sound familiar?
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